Your thoughts please,Sir?Originally Posted by voice of the theater
I'm STILL waiting for my stereo box set on backorder at Amazon. Can't wait to hear them on my new Model 19's (picked them up in mint condition less than a month ago). Some great opinions and info on the Beatles remasters here on this forum--I'll chime in as soon as my box set arrives.....
Your thoughts please,Sir?
Turntable : Yamaha GT 2000 - Cartridge : Soundsmith The Voice Ebony - Phono Stage : Moon LP5.3 - Preamp : Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid - Speakers : KRK Expose E8B.
I forgot about this old thread. Yes, I did buy the remastered Beatles Stereo Box Set. I commented briefly on the box set (and on the "Love" CD) on Nippers recent "Any Beatles Fans Here" thread.
To go more in depth, I grew up with the Beatles lp's. I heard those albums many many times. When they released their catalog on CD in the 80's, I bought the CD's and was disappointed that they didn't sound as good as the vinyl. I wasn't surprised however, because at the time most CD's didn't sound as good as vinyl. I wanted them anyways, because I'm somewhat of a completist when it comes to the Beatles (and some other artists as well). Anyways, in 2004 and 2006, as many of you know, Capitol released two remastered box sets--the Beatles "The Capitol Albums Volume 1" and "The Capitol Albums Volume 2". I bought both of them as soon as they were released. Basically, they contained the remastered CD version of all the early U.S Beatles albums--with the U.S. song order (and reverb/etc. added like the early U.S. Beatles albums had). The U.S. albums are what I grew up with, so it was an easy comparison for me to make. I thought that these box sets rivaled the sound quality of the U.S. vinyl releases--much better than the 80's Cds that I had bought, so I was happy with them.
OK, so now they release the "new" box set. And yes, I bought it. Their entire catalog, again! There's a sucker born every minute! But this time, I didn't feel like a sucker. This box set sounds incredible! And yes, I know there are those who say the stereo box set is no good, that only the mono box set is worthwhile. And there are those who say that neither set is as good as those original 60's vinyl releases (or 70's vinyl). I grew up with the stereo albums, I can't listen to the mono mixes. Having every instrument and vocal coming from the same exact point in the room (dead center between your two speakers) is BORING. Yes, I'm prejudiced--I can't listen to anything in mono for any length of time (especially something that I'm familiar with in stereo). I know the argument that the very early Beatles stuff had "bad" panning --- instruments/vocals panned all the way left or all the way right etc. I know that George Martin spent more time on the mono mixes than the stereo mixes on the first few Beatles albums (before stereo was at the height of it's popularity) and that when they remastered the Mono box set they used slightly less compression than on the stereo box set. Yes, all good arguments for why the mono box set might be the better purchase. Except that I've heard the stereo box set and they did a phenomenal job on it. For the first time, these albums, IMHO, sound better than the original vinyl. Cleaner, crisper sound. Enhanced bass EQ (in the "old days" they purposely reduced the bass response on vinyl due to the consumer playback limitations of vinyl/turntables/cartridges etc. of the times). Finally, you can hear nice deep bass on those old recordings. Purists may argue that the EQ should never be altered. I respectfully disagree. The bass response wasn't reduced back in the 60's due to artistic/aesthetic considerations--it was reduced due to technological limitations. All they've done with the box set remasters is to restore the fidelity that was present in the recording studio that was lost by the time the music was "on vinyl" in your home due to technological limitations. Fortunately, they DID NOT remix the albums for this release. They used the original mixes. I generally HATE IT when a band remixes their entire catalog like the Who and some other bands have done. I want to hear the original mix that I heard on vinyl when I buy an album on CD. I have no problem with a good remastering job (of an original mix). By good remastering, I mean restoring fidelity and hopefully using original master tapes to also restore clarity and reduce noise. Don't get me wrong, as AB pointed out, there are some BAD remasters out there ( I think he mentioned Rhino as an example). I've heard BAD remasters that use excessive EQ (which makes the recording sound unnatural), excessive compression (which sucks the life out of the original dynamics), and excessive noise reduction (which causes that "breathing" phenomenon which renders a recording unlistenable IMHO). In this case, they got it right. They used just enough EQ to give some "beef" to the kick drum and Paul's bass etc., a bit more sizzle to the cymbals etc. -- basically walking that fine line of restoring fidelity without making the "tone" sound unnaturally different than the vinyl. They used compression very sparingly as well and if they used noise reduction it was also very subtle. All I know is that the final result was superb--those albums never sounded better IMHO.
I have bought several new releases by various artists over the last few years and I'll go out on a limb here and say that I think digital technology has finally caught up to vinyl. SOME new CD releases sound astonishingly good--as good as vinyl IMHO without the potential surface noise. I know you have to take into consideration the limitations of CD's such as sampling rate etc., but they also have the benefits of potentially cleaner, quieter sound (less noise and distortion) with more extended bandwidth compared to vinyl. Up until recently, these potential benefits haven't amounted to a "hill of beans" because many (most?) CDs just didn't sound as good as pristine, well mastered and recorded vinyl IMHO. However, recently I've been blown away with the sound quality of certain new releases on CD whereas for years I swore that even the best CDs didn't sound as good as pristine vinyl. I really think that TODAY, the best producers working in conjunction with the best CD mastering facilities can produce a magical combination that wasn't possible a few years ago. This Beatles box set is sourced from old recordings, so it obviously doesn't sound as good as some of the brand new releases that are out there, but it uses a lot of the same technology and at least, finally, for the first time ever, sounds better than the original vinyl without changing the mix or general character/feel of the original albums IMHO.
In the interest of being objective, I do have a problem with the fact that they do not provide the original mix of Rubber Soul or Help with this box set. They remixed Rubber Soul and Help several years ago, and used the remixed version for the stereo box set. For some strange reason ($$$?), they do include the remastered version of the original stereo mix of Rubber Soul and Help on the Beatles Mono Box set. So, you have to buy both box sets (mono and stereo) if you want to have the remastered ORIGINAL stereo mix of every Beatles album. A shame, I would have given the stereo set a 10 had it not been for that. Fortunately, I have the Beatles Capitol Albums two box sets from 2004 and 2006 which contain the remastered, original mix of Help and Rubber Soul. Not quite as good as the current remastering job, but I'll take the remaster of the original mix over a better remaster of the remix of those two albums any day. In general, I really think you're defacing a work of art when you tamper with the original mix of a classic album. Restoring fidelity is one thing, but changing the balance/mix/pan/etc. REALLY changes the feel of an album, whereas a GOOD mastering job of an original mix is subtle and preserves the feel/character of the album (if done right), and improves the fidelity of it..... In this case, I admit the remix of Help and Rubber Soul both sound good---and I almost never like remixes of classic albums. Fortunately, the original producer George Martin did the remix--he "fixed" some of the extreme panning etc. of the originals but as good as it sounds, I like the remastered original mix--warts and all--better--but that's my preference. I have friends who love the remixed Who catalog with comments like "Roger's voice is finally way out front--you can finally really here the grit in his voice". I answer--yeah, but the guitar is lower in the mix and that robs the songs of some of their original primal power (and power chords!)........ To each his own--I never profess to be "right" -- if one of my friends likes a remix--his opinion is of course equally valid to mine but I might get in a sarcastic comment like "would you like it if they painted a mustache on the mona lisa"?:doh:
Well, theophile, you asked for it and there it is. All I can say is--next time--be careful what you ask for. You might get it......:snickerpup:
Being of "Sound" Mind
I haven't heard either the original CDs,nor the remasters.I'd like to get the new set on vinyl.
I love Love and recommend it to others.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Turntable : Yamaha GT 2000 - Cartridge : Soundsmith The Voice Ebony - Phono Stage : Moon LP5.3 - Preamp : Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid - Speakers : KRK Expose E8B.
Wow voice of the theatre, that was a great read! The Beatles albums are among the 20th century's more significant recordings and easily deserving of such careful consideration. I mostly listen to my original well worn Capitol LPs, though I also bought a few of the early CDs which sounded blah to me. I enjoyed the anthologies, and really like Let It Be Naked on CD. Heard some of the new LP set recently and liked it a lot. You'll have to count me among the detractors of "Love" though; George Martin must have bumped his head to participate in such molestation!
I'd be very interested to hear your impressions of the new set on vinyl. I still own lots of vinyl and think it's a phenomenal sounding format (providing of course that you have a great record cleaner, turntable, and cartridge--to enable you to keep surface noise/distortion to a minimum).....
Thanks Steve. I agree that the Anthology CD's were very well done (as well as the Anthology DVD series), and I like the Let It Be Naked CD too--nice to hear what Let It Be sounded like pre Phil Spector and nice to now have two great versions of Let It Be. As far as Love, I enjoy it more as a curiosity/historical documentation and as something different--but not something that ever made it into heavy rotation here at home...... The DVD documentary on the making of the Vegas Show "Love" is interesting too--I never knew the idea (weaving Beatles music into a live Cirque du Soleil performance) was sparked by George Harrison for example.....
Being of "Sound" Mind
I have the full Anthology set on vinyl. :2thumbsup:
It is fascinating.
Turntable : Yamaha GT 2000 - Cartridge : Soundsmith The Voice Ebony - Phono Stage : Moon LP5.3 - Preamp : Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid - Speakers : KRK Expose E8B.
It really gives you a nice view of the evolution of some of their work...... I also love the Anthology DVD set (and there is a directors cut of the DVD Anthology set out there as well but I'm not sure if it's "authorized"--it has lots more footage, etc.)....
Being of "Sound" Mind
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